Warner Amazon Expedition, 2009. The Search for Yacumama & South American Dragon
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Warner Amazon Expedition, 2009. The Search for Yacumama & South American Dragon
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BSc. Zoology (1st Class), 1973, University of Manchester; PhD. Studies on the
ecology of two sympatric
Sent: Mon 16/08/2010 16:11 (Commenting on some new data gleaned regarding Col. Percy Fawcett and old Jesuit records of giant snake sightings in the Amazon) Thanks Greg I am trying to put together some background material on evolution of constricting snakes and also gigantism. The accepted record for green anaconda is about 8m in length, a long way short of 25m. Ian
From:
Greg Warner HI Ian Thanks for your comments. Percy Fawcett was a well documented member of The Royal Geographical Society of London so if he recorded his finds in keeping with best practise and we can get access to the samples then maybe we may have something here. I have only had time to glance at your email but it looks like you agree. I have passed the emails to my father and am awaiting further instructions from him. Kind regards Greg
From:
Ian Montgomery Dear Greg and Mike Sorry to miss you last week. I think I had only just departed. The email you copied to me is interesting and adds to the anecdotal evidence that very large snakes occurred/occur in parts of Amazonia. I am interested in two points - the girth measurements in addition to length and width of channels/’trails’ in the forest. These suggest that these snakes may be very long but not necessarily proportionally wide although I accept the view that this could depend on recent prey. If the Fawcett material still exists it would be worth having (a) photographs with scale and as much detail of its origin as possible (b) access to record as much further detail as possible – architecture and surface structure of teeth (c) access and permission to remove organic samples from which it may be possible to extract DNA – the condition of the latter will depend on condition at original time of collection and means of preservation since i.e. there is a chance but only a chance that something could be recovered that might be useful. Any attempt to recover DNA would preferably be in a laboratory that is set up to do this sort of thing – otherwise there is a danger of cross contamination. It would be extremely interesting to make direct comparisons between any ‘giant’ material and material from known Amazonian constrictors – ideally both molecular and morphological comparisons would be made but this really dopes depend on access and what you can glean from the Fawcett material. Best wishes and good luck Ian
Sent: Thu 03/09/2009 07:58 Thanks Greg, I looked at the DVD last night and have a much better feel for the environment in general. I admire your nerve operating in such a small plane over such a remote and dangerous looking terrain. I hope to look through the stills over the next few days. Ian
Sent: 15 September 2009 17:13 Dear Greg & Mike Firstly, let me apologise for not getting back to you sooner. I needed time to look at your video and also photographs of an area that is very alien to me. Hence, my observations should be taken as those of an ill informed very distant observer. I can tell you what I took out of the material supplied to me after mulling it over. The environment is interesting. Clearly the forested area is not really much higher than the rivers over a large area and, hence, is subject to flooding. Rainfall might rise and fall in the area but equally river height could alter due to rainfall upstream. When this happens it is likely that there are short periods of movement of water down gullies. This could shape channels and break down vegetation in some areas. The best temperate analogy I can offer is that of ox bow lakes where bends in rivers are broken through leaving a characteristic bow shaped lake which is evident even though vegetation has grown up covering the old river/lake bed. In your study area there is evidence of sweeping channels of some considerable even width. These could be evidence of old river banks where sediment has built up and vegetation grown in a characteristic manner later to be isolated by changes in position of streams and rivers. Hence, it does not require some animal to have created many of these channels or to break down trees. However, these channels are likely to represent a unique habitat that could be exploited by wildlife. Side channels could be kept open and free of vegetation by movements of mammals, reptiles and even fish. The stills of the ‘mudbank’/snake?/crocodile? Are suggestive of something animate but do not present unequivocal proof of existence. Indeed, it is probably true that even with very good resolution photography such images would not regarded as sufficient for scientific proof. Images of faces on the moon, funny shaped vegetables etc are all very misleading about what is really there – rock and vegetable. You need something more. However, if I were to accept that the image is animate I would rule out caecilian and any other amphibian – the biology does not fit. I would rule out snake – the biology is less certain but I think not – too many issue to do with body mass and ability to move on soft mud etc. The ridges and general shape and size suggest very large crocodile – bigger thant the Australian ‘salties’ but not unreasonably bigger. And there are precedents for big extinct terrestrial reptiles. For science to accept the idea of a larger reptile than hitherto described as living you need hard evidence – a specimen. Photographs help but not without something that can be tested scientifically – skin, bone, teeth, mucous, faeces. Any of these can yield DNA and then you are in business. This is what you should aim for and you will need local people to help. Preferably they collect new material for you. If they produce something indeterminate that has been lying in the back of a hut then you must be sceptical – it has no provenance. You need, ideally, fresh material collected from a specified site preferably with corroborative data – good resolution photographs of the whole specimen, signs, tracks, contemporaneous descriptions. You need to do this without killing yourselves since posthumous evidence leads to too many questions – did you die before or after reaching the top of the mountain? Using modern GPS you should be able to track where you have been throughout and record where you photographed and collected material accurately. I hope this helps. Best wishes Ian Montgomery |
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Professor Ian Montgomery, Head of
School of Biological Sciences, Queens University Belfast